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	<title>Comments on: Kara no Kyoukai #5: Mujun Rasen (paradox spiral)</title>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/2009/07/05/kara-no-kyoukai-5-mujun-rasen-paradox-spiral/comment-page-1/#comment-455</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 19:56:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/?p=1128#comment-455</guid>
		<description>@Jeff Lawson: it is a very confusing film - even having plenty of experience with this sort of thing (the aforementioned Satoshi Kon included) I still needed a rewatch to appreciate the plot because it jumps around so much. Does Shiki take a back seat in this one? I&#039;m honestly not sure if that&#039;s the case. There are quite a few little moments that add to her character but perhaps the overwhelming nature of what&#039;s going on around her obscures that somewhat. I reckon you&#039;ll enjoy it more the second time around actually, although I&#039;m mindful of the fact that it&#039;s quite a long film.

@Hanners: the third one is just as great in my opinion, although the sexual slant made me feel a bit uncomfortable (in contrast, I must be desensitised to blood spillage since this one wasn&#039;t quite as bad for me in the &quot;urgh!&quot; stakes). As for Shiki&#039;s character, Nasu and Takeuchi are really into recycling personality traits and physical features, yet despite this and the relative age of the piece she doesn&#039;t come across as derivative at all. The quintessential heroine figure of her creator, much like Nausicaa and how she inspired Miyazaki&#039;s character writing since.

@TheBigN: yeah, now you mention it he does have a Wonka-esque look to him! And the cinematography...it tops the third movie, which I didn&#039;t expect at all. That&#039;s what concerns me: how far can this upward curve go??

@GARbej: I think I watched it three times in total! Only then did I feel confident that I &#039;got&#039; it but at some point I&#039;ll rewatch all of them because the shuffled timeline allows you to see things from a different perspective. It is a shame that Alba was portrayed in the way he was here - his character felt a bit under-used actually. Can&#039;t wait to read the novel if he has a Noble Phantasm-level ability, which ought to be out...any day now. Where&#039;s the announcement?!

@gaguri: what Sorrow-kun said. I honestly don&#039;t recommend missing any of the episodes at all. They&#039;re not all the same in terms of length or content - the fourth in particular is quite short and at first glance uneventful, but I think it&#039;s important to see them all through because explanations and connections crop up later. The first one isn&#039;t the best either, so you may well be pleasantly surprised with the rest.

@Sorrow-kun: I don&#039;t often pay much attention to the voice actors because I don&#039;t feel I&#039;m fluent enough in Japanese to appreciate the nuances, but in comparison with the typical anime villain Araya&#039;s VA was particularly cool and restrained, which is more effective I think. Maaya Sakamoto shines as Shiki, but that goes without saying, right? ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jeff Lawson: it is a very confusing film &#8211; even having plenty of experience with this sort of thing (the aforementioned Satoshi Kon included) I still needed a rewatch to appreciate the plot because it jumps around so much. Does Shiki take a back seat in this one? I&#8217;m honestly not sure if that&#8217;s the case. There are quite a few little moments that add to her character but perhaps the overwhelming nature of what&#8217;s going on around her obscures that somewhat. I reckon you&#8217;ll enjoy it more the second time around actually, although I&#8217;m mindful of the fact that it&#8217;s quite a long film.</p>
<p>@Hanners: the third one is just as great in my opinion, although the sexual slant made me feel a bit uncomfortable (in contrast, I must be desensitised to blood spillage since this one wasn&#8217;t quite as bad for me in the &#8220;urgh!&#8221; stakes). As for Shiki&#8217;s character, Nasu and Takeuchi are really into recycling personality traits and physical features, yet despite this and the relative age of the piece she doesn&#8217;t come across as derivative at all. The quintessential heroine figure of her creator, much like Nausicaa and how she inspired Miyazaki&#8217;s character writing since.</p>
<p>@TheBigN: yeah, now you mention it he does have a Wonka-esque look to him! And the cinematography&#8230;it tops the third movie, which I didn&#8217;t expect at all. That&#8217;s what concerns me: how far can this upward curve go??</p>
<p>@GARbej: I think I watched it three times in total! Only then did I feel confident that I &#8216;got&#8217; it but at some point I&#8217;ll rewatch all of them because the shuffled timeline allows you to see things from a different perspective. It is a shame that Alba was portrayed in the way he was here &#8211; his character felt a bit under-used actually. Can&#8217;t wait to read the novel if he has a Noble Phantasm-level ability, which ought to be out&#8230;any day now. Where&#8217;s the announcement?!</p>
<p>@gaguri: what Sorrow-kun said. I honestly don&#8217;t recommend missing any of the episodes at all. They&#8217;re not all the same in terms of length or content &#8211; the fourth in particular is quite short and at first glance uneventful, but I think it&#8217;s important to see them all through because explanations and connections crop up later. The first one isn&#8217;t the best either, so you may well be pleasantly surprised with the rest.</p>
<p>@Sorrow-kun: I don&#8217;t often pay much attention to the voice actors because I don&#8217;t feel I&#8217;m fluent enough in Japanese to appreciate the nuances, but in comparison with the typical anime villain Araya&#8217;s VA was particularly cool and restrained, which is more effective I think. Maaya Sakamoto shines as Shiki, but that goes without saying, right? ;)</p>
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		<title>By: Sorrow-kun</title>
		<link>http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/2009/07/05/kara-no-kyoukai-5-mujun-rasen-paradox-spiral/comment-page-1/#comment-454</link>
		<dc:creator>Sorrow-kun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 13:34:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/?p=1128#comment-454</guid>
		<description>One of the things that I don&#039;t think gets acclaimed enough about this film is just how good Nakata Jouji was at portraying an utterly disturbing and menacing antagonist in Araya.  That vocal performance made the character and was just so... chilling.

Yeah, this was my favourite film so far too.  There&#039;s just so much in it to chew on.  It&#039;s like a puzzle that&#039;s begging to be unraveled.

@gaguri: I wouldn&#039;t, because the fifth film ties a lot of the earlier ones together.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the things that I don&#8217;t think gets acclaimed enough about this film is just how good Nakata Jouji was at portraying an utterly disturbing and menacing antagonist in Araya.  That vocal performance made the character and was just so&#8230; chilling.</p>
<p>Yeah, this was my favourite film so far too.  There&#8217;s just so much in it to chew on.  It&#8217;s like a puzzle that&#8217;s begging to be unraveled.</p>
<p>@gaguri: I wouldn&#8217;t, because the fifth film ties a lot of the earlier ones together.</p>
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		<title>By: gaguri</title>
		<link>http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/2009/07/05/kara-no-kyoukai-5-mujun-rasen-paradox-spiral/comment-page-1/#comment-453</link>
		<dc:creator>gaguri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 11:19:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/?p=1128#comment-453</guid>
		<description>&quot;Finding beauty and poetry in violence and destruction is no mean feat…a guilty pleasure perhaps but I’d be lying if I said it isn’t awesome.&quot;

Haha...that&#039;s one of the things I love about anime. You feel less guilty about finding beauty in people actually getting killed (in serious manner). 

Anyway, I did hear so much good things about Kara no Kyou 5, but I wasn&#039;t that impressed with their first instalment. I liked it, just didn&#039;t think it was mind blowing. A fellow fan recommended me that I should skip 2,3,4 and just 5th one. Do you recommend so too?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Finding beauty and poetry in violence and destruction is no mean feat…a guilty pleasure perhaps but I’d be lying if I said it isn’t awesome.&#8221;</p>
<p>Haha&#8230;that&#8217;s one of the things I love about anime. You feel less guilty about finding beauty in people actually getting killed (in serious manner). </p>
<p>Anyway, I did hear so much good things about Kara no Kyou 5, but I wasn&#8217;t that impressed with their first instalment. I liked it, just didn&#8217;t think it was mind blowing. A fellow fan recommended me that I should skip 2,3,4 and just 5th one. Do you recommend so too?</p>
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		<title>By: GARbej</title>
		<link>http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/2009/07/05/kara-no-kyoukai-5-mujun-rasen-paradox-spiral/comment-page-1/#comment-452</link>
		<dc:creator>GARbej</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 18:42:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/?p=1128#comment-452</guid>
		<description>Watching Mujun Rasen the first time through was definitely disorienting, as it was probably intended to be to a certain extent. I can safely say I enjoyed the mindfuck though. It took a lot of effort to sort out what exactly was going on while watching, even after reading the book. A second viewing of Mujun Rasen is definitely recommended. That&#039;s when everything clicked for me and I was able to appreciate more of the subtleties of the movie, and not just the &quot;ZOMFG THAT WAS SO COOL&quot; moments.

Concerning Alba, his character was simplified a little from the novel. He&#039;s supposed to be very powerful, even having a spell that is equivalent to a Noble Phantasm, but the film never shows him in action, so he becomes a bit of a joke.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Watching Mujun Rasen the first time through was definitely disorienting, as it was probably intended to be to a certain extent. I can safely say I enjoyed the mindfuck though. It took a lot of effort to sort out what exactly was going on while watching, even after reading the book. A second viewing of Mujun Rasen is definitely recommended. That&#8217;s when everything clicked for me and I was able to appreciate more of the subtleties of the movie, and not just the &#8220;ZOMFG THAT WAS SO COOL&#8221; moments.</p>
<p>Concerning Alba, his character was simplified a little from the novel. He&#8217;s supposed to be very powerful, even having a spell that is equivalent to a Noble Phantasm, but the film never shows him in action, so he becomes a bit of a joke.</p>
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		<title>By: TheBigN</title>
		<link>http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/2009/07/05/kara-no-kyoukai-5-mujun-rasen-paradox-spiral/comment-page-1/#comment-451</link>
		<dc:creator>TheBigN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 16:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/?p=1128#comment-451</guid>
		<description>&quot;Unfortunately his appearance looked like something copied out of a J K Rowling novel,&quot;

I actually thought he looked like he resembled someone from one of Roald Dahl&#039;s more famous works. :P

This was my favorite of the five movies, since I tend to love mindfucks that come together if you think about it for a bit. I also enjoyed seeing more of characters other than Shiki, and a little bit more about what makes these people tick. I mean, even though you might say there&#039;s less of a Shiki presence here than in the first four movies, whenever she was present, the moments were still pretty important, eventful, and more informing as to who she is and how she continues to come to term with who she is. 

And oh god the cinematography, especially during the final battle, was great. I feel like I can&#039;t say that I love ufotable enough, since I feel like I say that all of the time. :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Unfortunately his appearance looked like something copied out of a J K Rowling novel,&#8221;</p>
<p>I actually thought he looked like he resembled someone from one of Roald Dahl&#8217;s more famous works. :P</p>
<p>This was my favorite of the five movies, since I tend to love mindfucks that come together if you think about it for a bit. I also enjoyed seeing more of characters other than Shiki, and a little bit more about what makes these people tick. I mean, even though you might say there&#8217;s less of a Shiki presence here than in the first four movies, whenever she was present, the moments were still pretty important, eventful, and more informing as to who she is and how she continues to come to term with who she is. </p>
<p>And oh god the cinematography, especially during the final battle, was great. I feel like I can&#8217;t say that I love ufotable enough, since I feel like I say that all of the time. :P</p>
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		<title>By: Hanners</title>
		<link>http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/2009/07/05/kara-no-kyoukai-5-mujun-rasen-paradox-spiral/comment-page-1/#comment-450</link>
		<dc:creator>Hanners</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:24:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/?p=1128#comment-450</guid>
		<description>Rather oddly I&#039;m a bit of a rarity in that I preferred the third movie out of the bunch so far, although this does run it a close second - Perhaps the fact that I marathoned all five movies in a matter of days makes the difference there.

That aside, this instalment certainly did a good job of making full use of the time allocated to it (which I doubted it would before sitting down to watch if I&#039;m honest) - It&#039;s one of those plots and stories that you can spend hours sitting and thinking about after the event, if only to marvel at some of the concepts it uses.  I certainly agree with your comparison to Jonathan Creek - I remember my thought at the time when the true nature of the apartment block was revealed was &quot;If Jonathan Creek was really fucked up, this was what it would be&quot;.

Shiki is also a good example of a character who should be straightforward almost to the point of being cliched on paper, but thanks to both some great writing and character development she&#039;s anything but - She really steals almost every scene in every movie so far, and shes one of the more fascinating individuals I&#039;ve seen in any recent anime.

All in all, I&#039;m definitely looking forward to the final instalments, however long the wait may be for the 7th movie!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rather oddly I&#8217;m a bit of a rarity in that I preferred the third movie out of the bunch so far, although this does run it a close second &#8211; Perhaps the fact that I marathoned all five movies in a matter of days makes the difference there.</p>
<p>That aside, this instalment certainly did a good job of making full use of the time allocated to it (which I doubted it would before sitting down to watch if I&#8217;m honest) &#8211; It&#8217;s one of those plots and stories that you can spend hours sitting and thinking about after the event, if only to marvel at some of the concepts it uses.  I certainly agree with your comparison to Jonathan Creek &#8211; I remember my thought at the time when the true nature of the apartment block was revealed was &#8220;If Jonathan Creek was really fucked up, this was what it would be&#8221;.</p>
<p>Shiki is also a good example of a character who should be straightforward almost to the point of being cliched on paper, but thanks to both some great writing and character development she&#8217;s anything but &#8211; She really steals almost every scene in every movie so far, and shes one of the more fascinating individuals I&#8217;ve seen in any recent anime.</p>
<p>All in all, I&#8217;m definitely looking forward to the final instalments, however long the wait may be for the 7th movie!!</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Lawson</title>
		<link>http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/2009/07/05/kara-no-kyoukai-5-mujun-rasen-paradox-spiral/comment-page-1/#comment-449</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Lawson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 15:11:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/?p=1128#comment-449</guid>
		<description>I actually watched this for the first time late last night.  On the whole, I came away a bit dissatisfied - not so much because it&#039;s a bad film (it&#039;s quite good, actually), but because I didn&#039;t seem to enjoy it nearly as much as the previous four installments.  For some reason, it wasn&#039;t as engaging as what came before it.  My initials thoughts are that it boils down to two things:  1)  the grand scale made for a LOT of material, which, combined with the funky chronology and puzzling presentation, made the core narrative difficult to keep track of, and 2) it&#039;s far less Shiki-centric than the previous films.  

The latter is probably most important; I didn&#039;t quite realize it until I finished Mujun Rasen, but the first four films are primarily focused on building up Shiki&#039;s character (and unraveling the mystery therein), and it&#039;s that common thread that binds them together.  The associated narrative exists to support Shiki&#039;s character development.  She&#039;s the star.  In Mujun Rasen, however, I felt she was more a spectator.  Because of that, the film felt detached from the series as a whole - even despite the fact it brings closure (or some element of closure) to core plot elements from the previous films.

I hope it&#039;s more an abberation and less a matter of the series jumping the shark (I&#039;m no fan of Nasu&#039;s writing, to be honest; the fact that I&#039;ve enjoyed Kara no Kyoukai as much as I have is a bit of a surprise... but it also means I&#039;m always waiting for the other shoe to drop).  The preview for Oblivion Recorder looked promising, at least.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually watched this for the first time late last night.  On the whole, I came away a bit dissatisfied &#8211; not so much because it&#8217;s a bad film (it&#8217;s quite good, actually), but because I didn&#8217;t seem to enjoy it nearly as much as the previous four installments.  For some reason, it wasn&#8217;t as engaging as what came before it.  My initials thoughts are that it boils down to two things:  1)  the grand scale made for a LOT of material, which, combined with the funky chronology and puzzling presentation, made the core narrative difficult to keep track of, and 2) it&#8217;s far less Shiki-centric than the previous films.  </p>
<p>The latter is probably most important; I didn&#8217;t quite realize it until I finished Mujun Rasen, but the first four films are primarily focused on building up Shiki&#8217;s character (and unraveling the mystery therein), and it&#8217;s that common thread that binds them together.  The associated narrative exists to support Shiki&#8217;s character development.  She&#8217;s the star.  In Mujun Rasen, however, I felt she was more a spectator.  Because of that, the film felt detached from the series as a whole &#8211; even despite the fact it brings closure (or some element of closure) to core plot elements from the previous films.</p>
<p>I hope it&#8217;s more an abberation and less a matter of the series jumping the shark (I&#8217;m no fan of Nasu&#8217;s writing, to be honest; the fact that I&#8217;ve enjoyed Kara no Kyoukai as much as I have is a bit of a surprise&#8230; but it also means I&#8217;m always waiting for the other shoe to drop).  The preview for Oblivion Recorder looked promising, at least.</p>
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