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	<title>Comments on: Bakemonogatari: tsunderisms and a higher class of fanservice</title>
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	<link>http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/2009/08/29/bakemonogatari-tsunderisms-and-a-higher-class-of-fanservice/</link>
	<description>Tsundere Service at no extra charge</description>
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		<title>By: The Deathseeker &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Bakemonogatari 08 - SHAFT Teased, Freud Pleased</title>
		<link>http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/2009/08/29/bakemonogatari-tsunderisms-and-a-higher-class-of-fanservice/comment-page-1/#comment-593</link>
		<dc:creator>The Deathseeker &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Bakemonogatari 08 - SHAFT Teased, Freud Pleased</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 09:05:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/?p=1389#comment-593</guid>
		<description>[...] and quite rightly so - in a recent post I just found, Martin made somewhat the same comments in his post about Bakemonogatari and Senjougahara. How can she not be the MVP of the series? Since the first [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and quite rightly so &#8211; in a recent post I just found, Martin made somewhat the same comments in his post about Bakemonogatari and Senjougahara. How can she not be the MVP of the series? Since the first [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/2009/08/29/bakemonogatari-tsunderisms-and-a-higher-class-of-fanservice/comment-page-1/#comment-586</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Aug 2009 11:48:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/?p=1389#comment-586</guid>
		<description>@manga: yeah, those things can be a little offputting...the &#039;adjustment&#039; I need to do is due to stuff like that. I don&#039;t like the staplers in the op sequence for instance, but I love the mixture of animation and photographic backgrounds.

@Hanners: I&#039;m looking forward to seeing what they do with her character later on, since she already seems to have undergone the dere-dere breakdown already. With SZS&#039;s manga getting released over here, maybe the light novels shouldn&#039;t be ruled out either...?

@Ghostlightning: cheers for the link! Bookmarked for future reference.

@2DT: that&#039;s exactly what I meant about the nature of the fanservice: is it a service to the horny fans, or a test? I love it when a series makes the viewer look back at themselves like that. And yeah, her dress sense is pretty stylish! ^_^&#039;

@Peter S: I guess that&#039;s the problem with the way the light novels are structured (I&#039;m assuming they&#039;re made up of stand-alone chapters). I&#039;m glad you&#039;ve taken personal first impressions into account here - the rift between our expectations and what the show actually is may well be the reason why Shinbo&#039;s work divides opinion in the way it does. Like ef, I think it has plenty of rewatchability.

@ETERNAL: Shibo is a cheeky bugger in terms of fanservice, but he seems to work on a slightly different level to many other directors. It makes me wish he worked outside the constraints of the TV format more often...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@manga: yeah, those things can be a little offputting&#8230;the &#8216;adjustment&#8217; I need to do is due to stuff like that. I don&#8217;t like the staplers in the op sequence for instance, but I love the mixture of animation and photographic backgrounds.</p>
<p>@Hanners: I&#8217;m looking forward to seeing what they do with her character later on, since she already seems to have undergone the dere-dere breakdown already. With SZS&#8217;s manga getting released over here, maybe the light novels shouldn&#8217;t be ruled out either&#8230;?</p>
<p>@Ghostlightning: cheers for the link! Bookmarked for future reference.</p>
<p>@2DT: that&#8217;s exactly what I meant about the nature of the fanservice: is it a service to the horny fans, or a test? I love it when a series makes the viewer look back at themselves like that. And yeah, her dress sense is pretty stylish! ^_^&#8217;</p>
<p>@Peter S: I guess that&#8217;s the problem with the way the light novels are structured (I&#8217;m assuming they&#8217;re made up of stand-alone chapters). I&#8217;m glad you&#8217;ve taken personal first impressions into account here &#8211; the rift between our expectations and what the show actually is may well be the reason why Shinbo&#8217;s work divides opinion in the way it does. Like ef, I think it has plenty of rewatchability.</p>
<p>@ETERNAL: Shibo is a cheeky bugger in terms of fanservice, but he seems to work on a slightly different level to many other directors. It makes me wish he worked outside the constraints of the TV format more often&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: ETERNAL</title>
		<link>http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/2009/08/29/bakemonogatari-tsunderisms-and-a-higher-class-of-fanservice/comment-page-1/#comment-582</link>
		<dc:creator>ETERNAL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Aug 2009 15:20:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/?p=1389#comment-582</guid>
		<description>Well written. I never gave Senjougahara too much thought since I already realized that I &lt;i&gt;love&lt;/i&gt; the show either way, but you definitely hit the nail on the head with the &quot;higher class of fanservice&quot; topic. Intentions aside, whatever Shinbo is doing is working: it&#039;s never felt like a moe or fanservice show, but something about the character interactions is alluring on both levels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well written. I never gave Senjougahara too much thought since I already realized that I <i>love</i> the show either way, but you definitely hit the nail on the head with the &#8220;higher class of fanservice&#8221; topic. Intentions aside, whatever Shinbo is doing is working: it&#8217;s never felt like a moe or fanservice show, but something about the character interactions is alluring on both levels.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter S</title>
		<link>http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/2009/08/29/bakemonogatari-tsunderisms-and-a-higher-class-of-fanservice/comment-page-1/#comment-581</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Aug 2009 04:02:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/?p=1389#comment-581</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a little disappointed that the show has become a &quot;character problem of the week&quot; series, when the first episode suggested a different type of story, Koyomi finds girl with a problem, takes her to The Man, who fixes her up.  But I can&#039;t blame the series for not being what I want.

While I&#039;m watching it, it&#039;s a continuous point of frustration for me that I can&#039;t understand half of the puns and verbal play that&#039;s going on.  Worse, it&#039;s like Ef, in that its visuals keep distracting me so that I can barely even follow the translation.  Again, can&#039;t blame the series ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a little disappointed that the show has become a &#8220;character problem of the week&#8221; series, when the first episode suggested a different type of story, Koyomi finds girl with a problem, takes her to The Man, who fixes her up.  But I can&#8217;t blame the series for not being what I want.</p>
<p>While I&#8217;m watching it, it&#8217;s a continuous point of frustration for me that I can&#8217;t understand half of the puns and verbal play that&#8217;s going on.  Worse, it&#8217;s like Ef, in that its visuals keep distracting me so that I can barely even follow the translation.  Again, can&#8217;t blame the series &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: 2DT</title>
		<link>http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/2009/08/29/bakemonogatari-tsunderisms-and-a-higher-class-of-fanservice/comment-page-1/#comment-580</link>
		<dc:creator>2DT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 13:33:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/?p=1389#comment-580</guid>
		<description>Again with the fascination.  This girl is really something to a lot of people.

&quot;Given what she’s been through, is it intentional that she’s painted in this light – one in which an apparent shamelessness is a symptom of a loss of self-worth? Is it reiterating how she was perceived by certain people as a sex object, and how that painful experience has skewed her own self-image?&quot;

I&#039;d almost believe it, but the most gratuitous stuff comes before we get that revelation about her past.  Granted, it does come RIGHT before, which does makes me wonder if we horny male viewers are supposed to feel guilty when the truth comes out.  Unfortunately I&#039;ve been putting off the show, so I can&#039;t comment much further than that.  But I enjoyed this entry.

Oh, and I love that stylish bra.  Girl knows how to shop, not bad for a not-real person.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again with the fascination.  This girl is really something to a lot of people.</p>
<p>&#8220;Given what she’s been through, is it intentional that she’s painted in this light – one in which an apparent shamelessness is a symptom of a loss of self-worth? Is it reiterating how she was perceived by certain people as a sex object, and how that painful experience has skewed her own self-image?&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;d almost believe it, but the most gratuitous stuff comes before we get that revelation about her past.  Granted, it does come RIGHT before, which does makes me wonder if we horny male viewers are supposed to feel guilty when the truth comes out.  Unfortunately I&#8217;ve been putting off the show, so I can&#8217;t comment much further than that.  But I enjoyed this entry.</p>
<p>Oh, and I love that stylish bra.  Girl knows how to shop, not bad for a not-real person.</p>
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		<title>By: ghostlightning</title>
		<link>http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/2009/08/29/bakemonogatari-tsunderisms-and-a-higher-class-of-fanservice/comment-page-1/#comment-579</link>
		<dc:creator>ghostlightning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 13:31:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/?p=1389#comment-579</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I get the feeling that Shinbo is testing the viewers’ integrity in the same way that Hitagi is testing Koyomi&lt;/blockquote&gt;

There&#039;s more to this, I feel: http://welovecomments.wordpress.com/2009/08/12/the-inauthenticity-of-senjougahara-fascination/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I get the feeling that Shinbo is testing the viewers’ integrity in the same way that Hitagi is testing Koyomi</p></blockquote>
<p>There&#8217;s more to this, I feel: <a href="http://welovecomments.wordpress.com/2009/08/12/the-inauthenticity-of-senjougahara-fascination/" rel="nofollow">http://welovecomments.wordpress.com/2009/08/12/the-inauthenticity-of-senjougahara-fascination/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Hanners</title>
		<link>http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/2009/08/29/bakemonogatari-tsunderisms-and-a-higher-class-of-fanservice/comment-page-1/#comment-578</link>
		<dc:creator>Hanners</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 13:20:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/?p=1389#comment-578</guid>
		<description>I think &quot;fascinating&quot; is the only word that can describe Senjougarahara&#039;s character, and you&#039;ve pretty much nailed it on the head here.  She really is a compelling bundle of contradictions; self-assured yet occasionally entirely unsure of herself, aggressive yet passive, and so on - This isn&#039;t just tsundere, this is M&amp;S tsundere.  Or something.  I won&#039;t go on about her too much more for risk of spoiling future story arcs for you, but some of the points you make here actually develop in some very interesting ways as the show progresses.

What I love about this series is (as per Spice and Wolf) the dialogue - Hitagi&#039;s razor-sharp verbal barbs are the obvious pull initially, but Araragi has some great moments of his own, and other characters later in the series also don&#039;t get short-changed by the script writers.  At times, it almost is like a coherent, narrative-driven version of Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei for its wordplay and knowing winks to the viewer which you&#039;ve summed up so nicely, and that alone is enough to make me fall deeply in love with the show.  Couple it to the fabulous visual polish and unique look that SHAFT have pulled off, and I turn into a melting, gushing fanboy almost instantly.

I&#039;m hoping and praying that someone will work on translating (maybe even licensing?) the light novels from which this series is derived - Quite simply, I *have* to read them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think &#8220;fascinating&#8221; is the only word that can describe Senjougarahara&#8217;s character, and you&#8217;ve pretty much nailed it on the head here.  She really is a compelling bundle of contradictions; self-assured yet occasionally entirely unsure of herself, aggressive yet passive, and so on &#8211; This isn&#8217;t just tsundere, this is M&amp;S tsundere.  Or something.  I won&#8217;t go on about her too much more for risk of spoiling future story arcs for you, but some of the points you make here actually develop in some very interesting ways as the show progresses.</p>
<p>What I love about this series is (as per Spice and Wolf) the dialogue &#8211; Hitagi&#8217;s razor-sharp verbal barbs are the obvious pull initially, but Araragi has some great moments of his own, and other characters later in the series also don&#8217;t get short-changed by the script writers.  At times, it almost is like a coherent, narrative-driven version of Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei for its wordplay and knowing winks to the viewer which you&#8217;ve summed up so nicely, and that alone is enough to make me fall deeply in love with the show.  Couple it to the fabulous visual polish and unique look that SHAFT have pulled off, and I turn into a melting, gushing fanboy almost instantly.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m hoping and praying that someone will work on translating (maybe even licensing?) the light novels from which this series is derived &#8211; Quite simply, I *have* to read them.</p>
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		<title>By: manga</title>
		<link>http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/2009/08/29/bakemonogatari-tsunderisms-and-a-higher-class-of-fanservice/comment-page-1/#comment-577</link>
		<dc:creator>manga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 13:03:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mononoaware.concretebadger.net/?p=1389#comment-577</guid>
		<description>It is a good show. It would be so much better of a show though if it didn´t have the one colored screens stuck with words on them. I have nothing against two people talking for 20mins with this kind of quality animation.

But when they flash these one colored screens I get a headache. Which isn´t the slightest fun.

Senjougahara is pretty fun to be around and her talk about various things is really fun.

So the show is a must see. If they could only stop with those screens I´d be a so much more happy man.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is a good show. It would be so much better of a show though if it didn´t have the one colored screens stuck with words on them. I have nothing against two people talking for 20mins with this kind of quality animation.</p>
<p>But when they flash these one colored screens I get a headache. Which isn´t the slightest fun.</p>
<p>Senjougahara is pretty fun to be around and her talk about various things is really fun.</p>
<p>So the show is a must see. If they could only stop with those screens I´d be a so much more happy man.</p>
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